Help! translation of Holmes' phrase

[Frankymole]

"Il n'y a pas des sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont de l'esprit" says
Holmes, commenting on Athelney Jones 'discovery' of the roof trapdoor in
The Sign of Four.

What does it mean? Babelfish does no better than my schoolboy French,
offering: "There are not stupid so inconvenient only those which have
spirit" which is obviously complete bollox.

All help appreciated!

[Bert Coules]

Post by Frankymole
"Il n'y a pas des sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont
de l'esprit" says Holmes, commenting on Athelney
Jones 'discovery' of the roof trapdoor in
The Sign of Four.
What does it mean?

Roughly, "There are no idiots so troublesome as the ones who have a little
wit". Written by one Francois Duc de la Rochefoucauld in the seventeenth
century.

Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

[g***@cix.compulink.co.uk]

*Date:* Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:50:43 -0000

Post by Frankymole
"Il n'y a pas des sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont
de l'esprit" says Holmes, commenting on Athelney
Jones 'discovery' of the roof trapdoor in
The Sign of Four.
What does it mean?

Roughly, "There are no idiots so troublesome as the ones who have a
little wit". Written by one Francois Duc de la Rochefoucauld in the
seventeenth century.
Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

Or 'There's none as daft as them as wants to be".

Andy Capp cartoon, circa 1967...

[Bert Coules]

Post by g***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Or 'There's none as daft as them as wants to be".

I read it as "People who are just a bit stupid are more trouble than those
who are *really* stupid". But Andy Capp is pithier.

Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

[Tim]

Thanks fellas, that was handy! Thanks Franky for bringing it up. And welcome
back, you've been a bit quiet of late!
Tim

Post by Bert Coules

Post by g***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Or 'There's none as daft as them as wants to be".

I read it as "People who are just a bit stupid are more trouble than those
who are *really* stupid". But Andy Capp is pithier.
Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

[Frankymole]

Post by Tim
Thanks fellas, that was handy! Thanks Franky for bringing it up. And welcome
back, you've been a bit quiet of late!
Tim

Yes my PC broke! :-)

Thank you all for your help, and see my last message for another German
quotation conundrum...

[PT]

My Penguin Classics paperback edition has a note on this as follows--
(gives quote) French-- 'There are no fools so troublesome as those who have
some wit', from Number 451 of "Les Maximes" by Francois, duc de la
Rochefoucauld (1613-80).

The same translation appears in a note in "The New Annotated Sherlock
Holmes" Edited by Leslie S. Klinger, Vol 3, page 280. The editor adds that
this saying appears in Benjamin Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanack" for
1741 and 1745.

Paul

Post by Frankymole
"Il n'y a pas des sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont de l'esprit" says
Holmes, commenting on Athelney Jones 'discovery' of the roof trapdoor in
The Sign of Four.
What does it mean? Babelfish does no better than my schoolboy French,
offering: "There are not stupid so inconvenient only those which have
spirit" which is obviously complete bollox.
All help appreciated!
--
Frankymole
"Incidentally, I'm a bit alarmed by your assumptions that thinking and
laughing are mutually exclusive activities. Best wishes, Douglas Adams"

[Frankymole]

Thank you! I found some translations in Baring-Gould's biography of Holmes,
but this one has stumped everybody: it's from the last chapter of The Sign
of Four: "Schade, daß die Natur nur einen Mensch aus dir schuf, Denn zum
würdigen Mann war und zum Schelmen der Stoff". Even the internet searches
and internet translation engines cannot cope with it, especially the word
"Schelmen" which doesn't even seem to be proper German.

I know it is a quote from von Schiller, but there's no English version that
I can see. Holmes being VERY obscure! Do the annotated editions provide
any clues?
--
Frank
"Incidentally, I'm a bit alarmed by your assumptions that thinking and
laughing are mutually exclusive activities. Best wishes, Douglas Adams"

Post by PT
My Penguin Classics paperback edition has a note on this as follows--
(gives quote) French-- 'There are no fools so troublesome as those who
have some wit', from Number 451 of "Les Maximes" by Francois, duc de la
Rochefoucauld (1613-80).
The same translation appears in a note in "The New Annotated Sherlock
Holmes" Edited by Leslie S. Klinger, Vol 3, page 280. The editor adds that
this saying appears in Benjamin Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanack" for
1741 and 1745.
Paul

Post by Frankymole
"Il n'y a pas des sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont de l'esprit" says
Holmes, commenting on Athelney Jones 'discovery' of the roof trapdoor in
The Sign of Four.
What does it mean? Babelfish does no better than my schoolboy French,
offering: "There are not stupid so inconvenient only those which have
spirit" which is obviously complete bollox.
All help appreciated!
--
Frankymole
"Incidentally, I'm a bit alarmed by your assumptions that thinking and
laughing are mutually exclusive activities. Best wishes, Douglas Adams"

[Bert Coules]

"Schade, daß die Natur nur einen Mensch aus dir schuf, Denn zum würdigen
Mann war und zum Schelmen der Stoff".

Roughly: "It's a shame that Nature made you just one person, even though
there was enough raw material for a good man and a rogue".

Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

[Tim]

I quite like that. I'd love to say I'll remember it and use it some day
but.. Who would ever have picked an argument with ACD!

Tim

Post by Bert Coules
Roughly: "It's a shame that Nature made you just one person, even though
there was enough raw material for a good man and a rogue".
Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

[William C Waterhouse]

Post by Bert Coules

"Schade, daß die Natur nur einen Mensch aus dir schuf, Denn zum würdigen
Mann war und zum Schelmen der Stoff".

Roughly: "It's a shame that Nature made you just one person, even though
there was enough raw material for a good man and a rogue".

Right, though I would say "for" rather than "even though." It's number 20
in _Xenien_, a collection of two-line satirical epigrams published by Goethe
and Schiller jointly. Its title is "The Prophet."

("Schelmen" is a correctly modified [dative] form of the basic noun "Schelm."
But "Mensch" is a mistake; it's "Menschen" in the _Xenien_.)

A full copy of the _Xenien_ is available online:
<http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/goethe/xenien/xenien.htm>


William C. Waterhouse
Penn State

[Bert Coules]

Post by William C Waterhouse
Right, though I would say "for" rather than "even though."

Agreed. "for" (or perhaps more colloquially, "since") is better.

Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

[Frankymole]

Post by Bert Coules
Roughly: "It's a shame that Nature made you just one person, even though
there was enough raw material for a good man and a rogue".
Bert
www.bertcoules.co.uk

Superb. Many thanks, I knew I could rely on Mr Coules, the redoubtable
sleuthhound!

[PT]

Yes,
Penguin Classics edition gives "Nature, alas, made only one being out of you
although there was material for a good man and a rogue." and the source as
mentioned by others here.

"The New Annotated Sherlock Holmes" vol 3 on page 379 gives the same
translation then goes on to say that C. Alan Bradley and William A.S.
Sarjeant offer a fresh interpretation:
Holmes is "lamenting the fact that there were not two Watsons, one to marry
Miss Morstan and the other to stay with him in Baker Street."

Paul

Post by Frankymole
Thank you! I found some translations in Baring-Gould's biography of
Holmes, but this one has stumped everybody: it's from the last chapter of
The Sign of Four: "Schade, daß die Natur nur einen Mensch aus dir schuf,
Denn zum würdigen Mann war und zum Schelmen der Stoff". Even the internet
searches and internet translation engines cannot cope with it, especially
the word "Schelmen" which doesn't even seem to be proper German.
I know it is a quote from von Schiller, but there's no English version
that I can see. Holmes being VERY obscure! Do the annotated editions
provide any clues?
--
Frank
"Incidentally, I'm a bit alarmed by your assumptions that thinking and
laughing are mutually exclusive activities. Best wishes, Douglas Adams"

Post by PT
My Penguin Classics paperback edition has a note on this as follows--
(gives quote) French-- 'There are no fools so troublesome as those who
have some wit', from Number 451 of "Les Maximes" by Francois, duc de la
Rochefoucauld (1613-80).
The same translation appears in a note in "The New Annotated Sherlock
Holmes" Edited by Leslie S. Klinger, Vol 3, page 280. The editor adds
that this saying appears in Benjamin Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanack"
for 1741 and 1745.
Paul

Post by Frankymole
"Il n'y a pas des sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont de l'esprit" says
Holmes, commenting on Athelney Jones 'discovery' of the roof trapdoor in
The Sign of Four.
What does it mean? Babelfish does no better than my schoolboy French,
offering: "There are not stupid so inconvenient only those which have
spirit" which is obviously complete bollox.
All help appreciated!
--
Frankymole
"Incidentally, I'm a bit alarmed by your assumptions that thinking and
laughing are mutually exclusive activities. Best wishes, Douglas Adams"

[Frankymole]

Post by PT
Yes,
Penguin Classics edition gives "Nature, alas, made only one being out of
you although there was material for a good man and a rogue." and the
source as mentioned by others here.
"The New Annotated Sherlock Holmes" vol 3 on page 379 gives the same
translation then goes on to say that C. Alan Bradley and William A.S.
Holmes is "lamenting the fact that there were not two Watsons, one to
marry Miss Morstan and the other to stay with him in Baker Street."
Paul

Most intriguing. As if Holmes' wasn't already cutting enough about women and
the establishment of marriage in that chapter!

Thank you, Paul.